From jmurtari at AKidsRight.org Sat Jan 5 21:02:56 2008 From: jmurtari at AKidsRight.org (John Murtari) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 21:02:56 -0500 Subject: Convince Sen. Clinton, help us Jan 15th in Syracuse! Message-ID: <18304.14032.535043.342389@hammer.thebook.com> Good People & People of Faith, A brief message on resumption of efforts to convince Sen. Hillary Clinton to meet with us and hear how our families were destroyed by the 'system'. With the Presidential campaign in full swing, this is our time to demonstrate what an important issue Family Law reform is. http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton Jailed in Syracuse, January 15, Martin Luther King's Birthday ------------------------------------------------------------- Tuesday, January 15th, is Martin Luther King's birthday. I can't think of a better day for a loving parent to risk peaceful arrest and be jailed for recognition of our GREAT Civil Right to be presumed FIT & EQUAL parents. http://www.AKidsRight.Org/approach.htm Parents arrested with no bull-horn, no animosity, and no anger toward our brothers & sisters (which include the other parent, judges, lawyers, social workers, etc.), but always first to say I'm doing this because........ my most precious right to love my child is being violated! (The exclamation point being made not by frothing at the mouth, but by voluntarily surrendering personal freedom.) The great power of what Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi called NonViolent Action. http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_back.htm A Powerful Message ------------------ Parents not only making a statement about reform, but also sending a message to the world that social change and justice can be promoted without violence toward others. A lesson that Faith, Love, and Personal Sacrifice are even more powerful -- truly commemorating another birthday that we remembered on December 25th. Imagine the tremendous publicity we'd receive if even 3-5 parents were arrested outside Sen. Clinton's offices in Syracuse. I believe it would convince her to meet face-to-face with us, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton/agenda.htm -- a public meeting that would certainly open the doors to other public officials. Let's turn around in our thinking, stop ranting and raving about how 'they' are ignoring our GREAT Civil Right to raise and nurture our own children. Let's look in the mirror and realize how much we fall short in our 'actions'. GREAT rights are defined by the sacrifice made by those who started to believe in them. That's 'us'. Many of us have responsibility for other children who need our care -- but there are many who do not. Parents who have been stripped of their children and now just get by in an almost meaningless existence, sometimes full of things, but no family? You want 'me' to risk arrest in an effort that might not matter, but could cost me the little I've managed to hold on to? Yes. Ready to Go! ------------ There will be more details coming before the 15th. I will certainly be there and hopefully will have a crowd of not only well wishers, but also participants. I just finished a great Christmas Vacation with my 14 year old son. Eight whole days together! We had a great time. I'm so thankful and eager to 'give back' in a sense of appreciation for what I had (and so many parents and children were denied by the system over the holiday). http://www.murtari.org/photoGallery/index.cgi?album=A_Winter_2007&mode=view Please ------ I try to answer everyone who sends me a message. It takes a lot of time! Before sending, please review all the links above -- they should answer most of your questions. No need to remind me this might be a 'useless and bad idea, a wasted effort'. I already know that and you may be right in some ways -- but that is what makes it sacrifice. The results are not a sure thing at all. Observers are welcome, if you are interested in being a participant, taking chalk and writing "I LOVE YOU" to your kids, and "SEN. CLINTON HELP US" -- what's the worst that could happen? You could get a Federal Criminal record, a large fine, and 60 days in jail. I don't think it's likely, but if you are not ready for that -- please help in other ways. If you think you are ready please email me, John Murtari, at jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org, give me a phone number and a good time to call. Best regards! P.S. Got a lot of interesting FEEDBACK on Britney Spears, that will be coming soon. What are our goals? What is our right? -- John Murtari ____________________________________________________________________ Coordinator AKidsRight.Org jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents" Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211) http://www.AKidsRight.Org/ From jmurtari at AKidsRight.org Thu Jan 10 12:26:31 2008 From: jmurtari at AKidsRight.org (John Murtari) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:26:31 -0500 Subject: Jan 15th Clinton Event/ Reform Goals/ Your FEEDBACK on Britney Message-ID: <18310.21831.304296.378913@hammer.thebook.com> Good People & People of Faith, This message has info on: 1. Plans for Jan 15th Event - make Clinton accountable. 2. Do we share a reform goal - probably not? 3. You FEEDBACK - Sorry Brit, your not Fit? 1. Plans for Jan 15th Event - make Clinton accountable. ------------------------------------------------------ Our last message described plans for a NonViolent Action outside the offices of Sen. Hillary Clinton at the Syracuse Federal Building, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/archive/archive2008/0000.html The website now has a more detailed schedule for the event, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton So far we've had three mothers express interest in being arrested with me, for using kid's chalk to write "I LOVE YOU" to their kids and "SEN CLINTON HELP US" on the ground outside the building. No fathers have volunteered so far. I hope some men will come forward soon. You are invited to come, to observe and act as public supporters for the efforts of these people. We hope to have the media their watching as loving parents, perhaps the "Syracuse 5", get arrested for daring to write "I LOVE YOU" to their kids and get the Senator's attention. One Mom does live in Minnesota and really needs help in covering the expenses to get here. She plans on driving and that is a long way and a lot of gas! If you can help her, or live in that part of the country and are also interested in coming, please contact her directly. Angelina Ottinger, nateyluv at yahoo.com, she also has a web site that describes how she lost both her children to "Child Protective Services". http://www.theAareOna.org/ 2. Do we share a reform goal - probably not? -------------------------------------------- [ Sorry, this is ran a little long, but it represents a good dialog and your thoughts are welcome. ] Many people complain about the lack of unity within 'our' movement. Maybe it is not so hard to understand. We're united in 'anger' about what we DON'T LIKE about the present system. We're not at all united towards a positive reform goal - and it shows. I spoke with another Mom who wanted to attend the Jan 15th event and risk arrest. She was really active and genuinely sincere in working for EQUAL parenting. But ...... I make it a point to ask every potential participant, "This is an event for parents who share the simple goal of the AKidsRight.Org group (http://www.AKidsRight.Org/approach.htm), that we are FIT & EQUAL parents unless convicted in a criminal court of being found a demonstrated serious threat to the safety of our kids while acting with malintent toward them. Being found guilty requires a unanimous 12 person verdict. It's possible a reporter will ask about your child, the other parent, and if you would be EQUAL with them. How will you answer?" This was a tough one for her. Her husband has a daughter from a previous marriage and he was caught in the usual custody struggles with the other parent. I was told the daughter's mom and step-dad were probably into drugs and had illegal drugs in the house. She told me her husband was going for FULL custody of his daughter to get her out of that environment. She agreed with his decision and said the little girl was just happier with him and always became sad when going back to her mother. A gut-wrenching experience many of us know. I asked her, "Has the child ever been actually abused? Do you believe her mother or step-dad are trying to hurt her?" She told me no. She thought the daughter did love her mom, but it was just a bad environment. It certainly wasn't what was best for the child.... We found we had a real difference, as I think many of you may find as you read this. I think the reaction I saw to the events in Britney Spear's life (Your FEEDBACK) make that even more clear. I asked this mother what is the standard before government can interfere in your family life? I didn't get an answer. She needed to think about, we all should. I know how I feel, http://www.AKidsRight.org/archive/archive2006/0007.html and I think there's a sound justification for the following: Our GREAT Civil Rights represent freedoms we have, our liberty as individuals to live our lives as our conscience dictates. Aware of the needs of the community, but not a slave to it. Without freedom, there is no virtue. We are free to live our lives as well or poorly as we see fit. To make poor decisions and suffer because of them and cause unavoidable pain to those around us. It DOES NOT make our decisions correct or right, but we are free to make them. Our relationship with our children is a source of our greatest moral obligations. An opportunity for us to also grow with our children over time (how many of us as parents have been affected deeply by our children). We may make very poor decisions for us and our children for a while (and sometimes a long while), but in freedom we have the chance to grow and to change and to love. It is difficult, but those very poor parents who may abuse drugs, alcohol should still be protected from government 'orders'. Why? If they are doing something illegal, shouldn't they be arrested and jailed for those offenses. While jailed, there kids would be cared for by the other parent/family. When released, they are parents again. What would you do instead? If any parent is a smoker, we should take their kid's away because without a doubt, it may cause cancer in them.... If you speed or run a red light with your kids in the car, we take them away, they could have been killed.... If you are convicted of stealing or white collar crime, you are a serious bad moral example, we take them away.... We only want to do what is best... As a community we should 'offer' help when there is a troubled family, not force it. Why? Because in 99.99% of the 'might happens', nothing deadly ever does happen. But in every case where an 'order' separates a parent/child, serious damage and abuse occurs by definition every time. When can it be justified? Only when we have BAD parents, those very rare among us who are actually trying to hurt their children with malintent. In these cases, and no others, the parent is using their exercise of freedom to destroy their child -- there can be no growth, no change in the relationship, no love. Ultimately, many of us find problems with parents exercising that much 'freedom'. Many of us may be closer to the present 'system' than we realize, after all, it's designed purpose is to allow the government (an extension of the community) to 'do what's best' for YOUR kids. 3. You FEEDBACK - Sorry Brit, your not Fit? ------------------------------------------- Can you believe that quip above, "Sorry Brit, your not Fit?". Can you believe it was used in a message thread about Britney Spears in one of the Yahoo Groups. A Yahoo Group made up of parents who have themselves been blocked from the freedom to see their children? We recently ran a message asking why more parent's groups haven't rallied to help Britney in her own public battle with the system: http://www.akidsright.org/archive/archive2007/0049.html Your FEEDBACK is below, and again I think it helps us learn we still have a ways to go as far as agreeing to a common goal for reform. I encourage everyone to read the very last message from Canadian Jeremy Swanson -- some very sound thoughts.... In the FEEDBACK it appears you're not a 'fit parent' if one or more of these apply: * You don't always where underwear. * You have used an illegal drug. * Run a stop sign with children in the car. * Fail to appear for a Court deposition regarding your kids. * REALLY BAD ONE - When a body guard for the other parent shows up to take your children after your ordered 'visitation time' is done, get emotional, don't want to do it, and lock yourself in your room with the kids for a while. You were not under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time, just emotional. If you do this one, you don't even have to have another Court appearance because the 'Judge' can just assign sole custody to the other parent... I don't know about you, but I know I have had to give my son up (as he was crying and wrapped around my neck) to strangers at the end of our assigned 'visit' and there were times I was very, very close to saying no and keeping him with me..... A lot of you thought this was plenty of justification to take the kids. I couldn't help but ask, "if these things are so bad, why hasn't she done any jail time? Isn't that how we punish people?" Or is there a higher unwritten code government can now enforce (when it wants) against parents? --- David Hamu http://www.arizonafathersrights.com/ > At Arizona Father's Rights, we have been watching the Britney Spears fiasco > with some amusement and some sense of poetic justice. I think that you are > right, from the standpoint of the abuse of process and the abuse of our > constitutional rights, the courts are doing to Britney what they do to > hundreds of fathers around the country on a daily basis. > However, from the standpoint of poetic justice, we see the poetic justice > when a mother is dealt the same injustices that we have been exposed to. --- Don Mathis > You wrote, One 'mantra' of our group, that goes along with our goal > is: "Good, Average, and Poor parents are all FIT & EQUAL parents!" > Is that the mantra for AKidsRight.org ? If so, it's not enough to > un-subscribe but please do not list me as a member. A poor parent > seeks to avoid responsibility for his or her child - or else abuses > them. A poor parent is not fit. A poor parent should not have equal > rights as a fit and loving parent. imho. > As far a Britney, > Sorry Brit, you're not fit. [ Shortened Version - Ed. ] > If the judge wants you to take a urine test, > and you don't, you should face arrest. > The law says to seat-belt your kiddies, > if you don't, you expose them to injuries. > Putting the kids at risk of harm > is evidence enough you're not a good mom. The slogan just reflects that at moments in time we have all been good, average, or poor parents -- and probably had those types of parents ourselves. The 'bad' parent is an unfit parent, for they seek to destroy their child and there can be no other moments in time, no growth or change. The 'bad' parent is unfit. Your opinions I feel are shared by a majority of people. I would first think we need understand what our goals are for reform. Also, if there is such as thing as a 'right to family', where does it come from, how strong and deserving of protection is it? Obviously, I think you know how I define our goal and what the standards of proof are, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/approach.htm -- but please also check these two links about what defines our right to family. http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_rights_essay.htm http://www.AKidsRight.Org/archive/archive2006/0007.html I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on those items, and then how you would apply them to Britney below. > After reading your essay at > http://www.akidsright.org/civil_rights_essay.htm , I wish to > redefine my opinion of Britney - from poor to bad. Yes, every parent > is poor at times - as Alec Baldwin exemplifies. But when Brit was > photographed with no seat-belt on her kid, I don't need a > conviction. If you insist on other examples, consider her booking > for hit-and-run and driving w/o a license. > http://www.tmz.com/media/2006/06/spears_seatbelt_x17.jpg > Thanks for your reply but imho, Brit is Unfit. --- Chris > Being as we are looking out for what is in the best interest of our > children and not wanting parents to be needlessly separated from our > kids, I have to take you to task on the Britney Spears issue. > While the biggest difference from Britney and any custodial parent > is the attention of the poparozzi, she has very clearly demonstrated > her contempt, not only for her children and their father, but for > the law as well. > Every action she has taken has either been as a smokescreen to make > the courts think that she has been cleaning up her act or has been a > blatant disregard for both the court's orders and the safety and > wellbeing of her own child. > The actions taken against her have been justified by her own > actions. She torpedoed herself. She has intentionally disobeyed > court orders, committed dui's with the children in her car with her, > driven recklessly with her kid in the car and driven with her kid > in her lap (both illegal and dangerous for the child). > All in the presence of the popparazzi...50 cameras, all taking > pictures every step of the way. > If any parent is deserving of the wrath of the courts, it has been > her. > We cannot go defending parents who blatantly and flagrantly flout > their responsibilities just because they are NCP's. And > particularly when they are celebs and do it. > It's bad enough when a custodial parent violates the court orders, > but when one of us does so, particularly when they are a celebrity, > that makes things even worse. More so when when we defend their > blatantly illegal and immoral actions. > For Britney Spears being an NCP does not justify her actions. She > screwed herself and should suffer the consequences. There are > plenty of divorced celebs out there that are keeping their kids safe > and following the courts orders. Both custodial and non-custodial, > so there is no excuse for Britney. She has demonstrated that she is > irresponsible both as an adult and as a parent. > We should not be irresponsible by defending her until she in fact > cleans up her act. If she ever does. Thanks for taking the time to write a thoughtful message on this and I'm interested in discussing this with you. I think we can all learn from it. Your opinions I feel are shared by a majority of people. I would first think we need understand what our goals are for reform. Also, if there is such as thing as a 'right to family', where does it come from, how strong and deserving of protection is it? > NO REPLY. --- Joseph Toman > What you got with Britney is a child who became a star with no > parental role models or help. Now thrown into the PUBLIC that > judges her and a legal system that is only out for part of her big > bucks. If I were her I would drink and abuse drugs too. > People in general are "no damn good" and the "masses are asses"! > I can only pray she finds a way out of the hell she is in. While > others of course will condemn and burn her at the stake. > Nothing ever changes. People for the most part are idiots. IF you > have a birth certificate you are a HUMAN RESOURSE hypothicated to > the National debt. YOU have no voice as you are a citizen slave of > the master who you adore with your bank accounts and bank cards and > bank loans. YOU are the tail they are the head and they as the head > can say and do whatever they want with you because you OWE THEM. No > one seems to get that fact. We have a government that does not > represent US but represents the corporate beast. Plain and simple. > Just ask one of them for help and they will say "go find a lawyer" > "I can't help you"!!! > I think you have a fairly good take on all of this. And I > personally thank you for that. Common sense is not common any more. Wow. I think you have hit some points there and that is how we treat each other. I'm glad you said 'in general'! We are idiots 'sometimes' -- the question of how much and when is a tough one. --- Jeremy Swanson [ This was a good one from Canada. Unfortunately, I wish the number of groups protecting Britney's due process rights could have been greater. ] Life, Sports and Other Pursuits By Kathy Rumleski Men's rights groups sympathetic to Spears Posted: 2007-10-04 16:45:17 http://www.lfpress.com/perl-bin/publish.cgi?p=19&archive=Live&page=3&x=blogs&s=blogs Father's Rights groups could have praised the judicial decision which awarded Kevin Federline custody of his children over Britney Spears. Instead they respectfully asserted that children suffer whenever they can't see a parent, whether it is a mom or dad. "We make it clear that we support equal parenting and that children belong in the custody of their mother and their father. What has happened in the Britney Spears case is all very tragic and unfortunate - for the children," wrote Canadian father and activist Jeremy Swanson. "As casual observers and like most parents we don't care much for the mother and her social difficulties as she is but we recognize that her children love their mom and they need her. Just as they need their dad. It would have been easy to say, finally we won one. Instead fathers took the high road and said nobody wins in these awful battles. Swanson deserves credit for his statements. After years of heartbreak, he knows how Spears must be feeling and he reached out instead of attacked. What would you say to Spears, Federline or Swanson if you had the chance? -- John Murtari ____________________________________________________________________ Coordinator AKidsRight.Org jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents" Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211) http://www.AKidsRight.Org/ From jmurtari at AKidsRight.org Tue Jan 15 16:11:05 2008 From: jmurtari at AKidsRight.org (John Murtari) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:11:05 -0500 Subject: MLK Birthday: Murtari peacefully arrested outside Clinton offices Message-ID: <18317.8553.557980.525412@hammer.thebook.com> Good People & People of Faith, John Murtari returned to the Syracuse Federal Building with a petition containing pictures of parents and children unjustly separated. He was also carrying kid's chalk and planned to write "I LOVE YOU" to his son and "SEN CLINTON HELP US" on the ground outside the building. He was taken into custody by building security. A press release was also sent out and you are free to redistribute: http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton/release41.pdf We will release more details as they become available. Check the web site at http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton TO HELP please contact Senator Clinton's Offices: ------------------------------------------------- Make a polite call to her Washington and especially her Syracuse Office (ask for/leave a message for Mr. Jay Biba). You can also fax a letter to both. Syracuse Local rep, Jay Biba tel: 315-448-0470, fax: 315-448-0476 Lona Valmoro (Senior Advisor), tel: 202-224-4451, fax: 202-228-0121 Your Phone Calls - Clinton Response ---------------------------------- It is beginning to make an impact. Some responses to what we have heard them say so far: 1) "We've had no request for a meeting" -- Repeated letters have been mailed, FAX'd, and FedEx'd to the Senator. Some have been delivered in person. We have had NO reply and NO return phone calls. http://www.AKidsRight.Org/actionc_syr http://www.AKidsRight.Org/newyork.htm 2) "The Senator doesn't come for personal meetings to Syracuse" - We are not looking for a one-to-one meeting. We'd like her to hear first hand from a small group of parents, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton/agenda.htm . She is often in the Central New York area to meet with other business/advocacy groups. 3) "This is not a Federal issue" -- This is about getting the Civil Rights of parents and children to be together, recognized & protected. It should not matter what State you live in. 4) "Priority, schedule conflicts" -- Is there anything more important and foundational to our Nation than the family? -- John Murtari ____________________________________________________________________ Coordinator AKidsRight.Org jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents" Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211) http://www.AKidsRight.Org/ From jmurtari at AKidsRight.org Sat Jan 19 15:19:16 2008 From: jmurtari at AKidsRight.org (John Murtari) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:19:16 -0500 Subject: Murtari released/ Who 'we' are/ Burning cars for reform? Message-ID: <18322.23364.46284.565200@hammer.thebook.com> Good People & People of Faith, This message has info on: 1. Murtari update - need a little help for us all. 2. Group identity - who are 'we'? Car burning? 3. Letters to the Editor - Dr. Malcolm Hatfield, MD 4. Let's have a laugh at ourselves - DESPAIR.COM 1. Murtari update - need a little help for us all ------------------------------------------------- I'm happy to be 'free' this weekend. My thanks to those who called my office and left a message and who called the offices of Sen. Clinton for our cause. For some factual details on what my status is I've included an excerpt from the web site farther below. If any of you have reached the point where you're ready to participate in a NonViolent Action and you agree with the goals & methods of our group, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/approach.htm -- I sincerely welcome you to contact me. I am 'tentatively' planning to return to the Federal Building next Thursday, Jan 24th. While I am ready to proceed alone, it would be more productive if more parents were involved. I truly believe that when a Federal Magistrate (and the public) sees a group of Mothers & Fathers arraigned in hand-cuffs, there 'alleged' offense being writing "I LOVE YOU" and "SEN CLINTON HELP US" on the ground in chalk -- we will have reached a significant milestone in our Civil Rights movement. Two reasons: 1) Talk is cheap. Actions show what we really believe. We will have convinced ourselves that the right to be presumed FIT & EQUAL parents to our children is worth the sacrifice (especially when our efforts may not help us, but other parents). 2) Our actions will convince ANY politician, especially Sen. Clinton, and the members of the public (who haven't been through CPS or a divorce themselves), that 'ours' is an important issue for 'them'. We had a big chance last Tuesday, our Press Releases were sent out, http://www.AKidsRight.org/clinton/release41.pdf -- I was contacted by a reporter for WTVH (the local CBS affiliate) and they were ready to send a crew to cover the event, to interview parent's dropping off their letters with Sen. Clinton's local staff and willing to write with chalk. They asked many how many other parents would be there? I had to tell them, "none." It's so tiring to hear the criticisms of others, especially Sen. Clinton, that I see in many email messages. The problem is not 'them'. Do I (or you) expect a US Senator to drop what they're doing in response to a ONE person effort? No.... We as parents need to make the big effort first. Lastly, why continue as just ONE? Because, irregardless of what others may do I have a moral obligation to act to correct a great injustice in our society, even if it causes me some 'discomfort'. It doesn't anger me when I'm alone. I understand the many pressures we all face -- but I also have a deep Faith that in time, more parents will join in and we will succeed -- because our cause is just. Contact me, leave me a message and your phone number (clearly), toll free, 877-635-1968, x-211, email: jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org Hope to see you soon! John Murtari --------- http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton (for more details) Jan 17, 2008 - After two nights in jail, John was returned to Court for a 'detention hearing' in front of US Magistrate David Peebles. Initially it appeared that John would be returned to jail for violating the conditions of his release from Judge Peebles on Sep. 27th. The Judge was fair minded and took the time to adjourn and listen to the audio transcript of the Sep 27th proceeding. He determined that John had not violated his release conditions. After some discussion it was felt that the current stay-away order was too broad and the US Attorney decided to dismiss the charges from the Jan 15th arrest. John also plans to submit a motion to have the stay away order retroactively vacated, and so possible get the remaining two charges dismissed. John was allowed to proceed as his own counsel and the Judge granted his request for the help of an assigned 'attorney advisor.' It was decided that the remaining two charges of Criminal Contempt would be treated as a Class B Misdemeanor, a maximum sentence of six months for each offense and no right to a jury trial -- the trial should be in early March. Judge Peebles revised his conditions of release so that John could stand in front of the building, but he was not allowed to 'deface' government property (which was targeted at his chalk writing in the past).... 2. Group identity - who are 'we'? Car burning? ----------------------------------------------- To all the mothers and fathers out there who are concerned with Family Rights, who share the goals of our AKidsRight.Org group: Below you will see a message that was posted during a "Men's leadership/rights" discussion. Nobody bothered to disagree? I posted a reply and the original author posted a follow up (below). Hopefully, it will encourage some thought. Let's begin to figure out where we belong? What is your group's goal, what are their & your methods? --- Bruce Eden > And, if they try and crush us under their heels, who's willing to > stand up and fight back, with counterinsurgency if necessary? It > may come down to spray painting cars, slashing tires, burning cars, > etc. Is this what they define as domestic terrorism or a revolt? > Weren't the patriots in 1775 considered terrorists by the Crown when > they revolted? Didn't the British leaders, the judges and the Crown > send troops to quell the protesters and terrorists? I read that's > what King George and his Generals called Washington and his army. > Remember what happened? Remember Paul Revere? Does anybody read > history and see how it is repeating itself here? What's the > difference if fathers go forward and strike down feminist seminars > with protests and threats? > We need to find where the lawyers and feminist groups hold their > public conferences, meetings, seminars and start attending, > infiltrating and breaking them up. The CIA and FBI were good at > doing this in the 50s and 60s with the communists. There is no > difference between feminists and communists.... Child support laws > come from Soviet Family Law, Article 81. Domestic violence laws are > from communist doctrine. No-fault divorce was in the works by > communist-feminists in the 1940s. No wonder we had the McCarthy > hearings then. We need them again. ... The message above was sent on the 14th, looks like a lot of 'men' read it and nobody disagreed? Or perhaps were afraid to publicly? I reject every proposed 'action' Bruce promotes -- do any of you? Do I even have to explain why? Bruce, since you said it, whose car do you plan on burning first? What if mine is parked on that street, or the car of one of our son's or daughter's? Just a little collateral damage? Just the price of freedom? Fill me in, but I don't remember an incident where George Washington went yelling down a street and set someones carriage on fire and then ran and hid? Give me some history on that... Well, who is suppose to pay the price for what you "men" perceive as "your" rights. Me and my family? Explain to me again what separates you from a terrorist?... I know Rich Doyle, I know Bruce, and many more of you ... I know they care deeply about what is happening to 'men' and in many ways I would also agree, it is a tragedy. In Rich's message he asked why 'we' are not united. I think he missed one answer -- 'we' don't share the same goals, nor the same approach to achieve those goals. I believe the answers to those questions help bring people together as a 'movement'. http://www.AKidsRight.Org/approach.htm We need to begin to separate ourselves as we think about those questions. That natural separation takes time to happen in any Civil Rights movement, and some of those 'clusters' will fail... ... Whose car do you plan on burning first to achieve your goal? I'd like to share those answers with members of the movement I am a member of -- mothers & fathers united as 'parents' peacefully seeking to preserve their right to be presumed EQUAL and FIT parents. By our voluntary self-sacrifice, we are willing to pay the price for what we believe in. --- Bruce replies > Hmmm. John Murtari makes a cogent point! However, we have seen him > protest his way (by hunger strike). Where did it get him? Nowhere, > but maybe shortening his life. Yes, he may leave a legacy for his > children. But, so what. That's an individual viewpoint. John does > what John does. I don't see him getting 100 men to protest at a > courthouse or tie themselves by chains to the governors' office. I > don't see him protesting bad judges at reappointment hearings (in NJ > we had over 200 show up to stop a judge in one instance, and 150 > showed up to testify against a judge from reappointed in another). > That is real protest and real actions. How about demonstrating at > multiple courthouses on the same day John? Have you got enough > followers to do that? And, John is probably on the terrorist watch > list at this point because he's protested by himself at Clinton's > office, causing her to be "threatened" by this father.... > My comments were directed to one who mentioned that the government > was "trying to crush us under their heels". The Nazi jackboots > attempted that for 10 long years in 1933-1943 before they were > systematically destroyed by the allies. Many fought back the only > way they could against a standing army. Many wound up in gas > chambers, ovens or were machine-gunned into open pits. My point > was, "how much longer are we going to allow a standing army in this > country to continue crushing fathers until someone stands up and > fights back?" At this point in time, the only thing that may be > left is violence. You look at the Mid-East. Why are they sending > out women and children to blow up soldiers? Because they tried > every other way and doesn't work. When you have a standing army, as > we do in this country (i.e., child support enforcement and domestic > violence enforcement officers), and no one listens to your > complaints of "violations of your civil rights" what is the > alternative? > It seems that John Murtari has tried and accomplished nothing with > his hunger strikes and single-man protests? Did he get Hillary > Clinton to come out and answer his questions? No. He couldn't even > get any of her aides to show up. Who did show up though were > jackbooted thugs to accost, TERRORIZE and assault Murtari. > If what I say is terrorism, what are they doing to use every day. > Each person will have to decide what they want to do and then > organize to the extent of what they want to do.... start showing up > at courthouses with protest signs and getting the press involved to > the point saying that if the courts don't listen, we will be at the > judge's house on the weekends letting the neighbors know who these > child molesters and tyrants are... > Revolutions NEVER start peacefully. They didn't here in 1775. They > didn't at the Bastille. They didn't when the Confederacy wanted to > secede from the Union. They didn't in India (the British were > mowing the locals down by the hundreds). There were a lot of > burnings, property destruction and unfortunately killings during the > Civil Rights movement in the 1960s (see, Selma, Alabama and Newark, > NJ; more recently Watts and later, Rodney King in L.A.). And, it > may just come to that again here when fathers have finally have > said, "Enough is Enough". > So, John, your voluntary self-sacrifice was an exercise in futility > and human waste. Before you presuppose you know what you are > talking about or know what you're doing, there are those of us out > there that were doing this long before you got involved. And, yes, > there are those of us out there that were already slashing tires, > spraying swastikas on cars and buildings and burning cars against > DFS and other anti-family agenciesb ... before you chastise me or > anyone else with regard to these ideas, it has already been done and > there's a history of it being extremely effective. > You can still spray-paint swastikas on cars and buildings, throw cow > manure filled balloons against lawyers and judges front doors and in > swimming pools on hot summer days, let the air out of tires on these > peoples' cars, smash windshields, and hand their kids letters to > give to their lawyer-or judge-fathers and mothers when they are > coming home from school. You need to let them know that they are > not liked for what they do, and let them know who you are.... > These are all things that can be done to make impacts. However, it > requires numbers of people to be demonstrating at courthouses and > politicians offices. This is more effective and press-worthy and > creates an environment for new members. 3. Letters to the Editor - Dr. Malcolm Hatfield, MD --------------------------------------------------- Dr. Hatfield has been a long time member of the group and active in Wisconsin. You can read his story at our Hall of Shame, http://www.AKidsRight.org/shame3.htm#hatfield He has written a couple of excellent Letters to the Editor and their are links below. The second letter encourages folks to pay attention to a new Bill under discussion in Wisconsin, hearings scheduled for Jan 24th. http://www.AKidsRight.Org/photoGallery/index.cgi?album=Letters&mode=view 4. Let's have a laugh at ourselves - DESPAIR.COM ------------------------------------------------ Folks, if I've learned anything about this effort, you have to keep a sense of humor about yourself and our efforts. Here are some of my favorites from DESPAIR.COM WARNING - do not visit the site and STOP READING NOW if you are being treated for over-seriousness or depression. First consult with your doctor if you have liver problems or are being treated with statins or MAOI inhibitors ... YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED..... "When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts..... There's no end to what you can't do." http://www.despair.com/incompetence.html "Your role may be thankless, but if you're willing to give it your all... You just might bring success to those who outlast you." http://www.despair.com/sacrifice.html "It could be that the purpose of your life is... Only to serve as a warning to others." http://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html "For every winner, there are dozens of losers..... Odds are you're one of them." http://www.despair.com/def24x30prin.html More.... http://www.despair.com/limitations.html http://www.despair.com/overconfidence.html http://www.despair.com/sacrifice1.html http://www.despair.com/giveup.html http://www.despair.com/ambition.html -- John Murtari ____________________________________________________________________ Coordinator AKidsRight.Org jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents" Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211) http://www.AKidsRight.Org/ From jmurtari at AKidsRight.org Fri Jan 25 09:10:25 2008 From: jmurtari at AKidsRight.org (John Murtari) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:10:25 -0500 Subject: "I LOVE YOU" Campaign/ Georgia CPS/ Murtari arrested & Your FEEDBACK Message-ID: <18329.60881.776281.581910@hammer.thebook.com> Good People & People of Faith, This message has info on: 1. National "I LOVE YOU" Campaign - good idea? Your thoughts? 2. Murtari arrested - Outside Clinton offices, Syracuse Fed. Bldg. 3. Georgia State Senator Schaefer calls for CPS reform! 4. Congressional resolution for joint custody - it's a start. 5. Your FEEDBACK - a mixed bag. 1. National "I LOVE YOU" Campaign - good idea? Your thoughts? -------------------------------------------------------------- We have a DRAFT of an idea for a grassroots efforts that captures the goals and methods of our group. This is a Presidential election year and an excellent opportunity to see progress towards our goals. It doesn't depend on 'them', it fully depends on 'us'. http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton/national.htm This has not gone public yet at the web site. Your thoughts and ideas are welcome. Let us know if you can help in any way. 2. Murtari arrested - Outside Clinton offices, Syracuse Fed. Bldg. ----------------------------------------------------------------- (I'm glad to be able to write this myself.) I returned to the building at 2 PM with a petition containing pictures of parents and children unjustly separated. I was also carrying kid's chalk. It was cold and snowing and I stood in front of the building holding our petition. I was told I was in violation of a 'new' stay-away order issued by Judge Peebles, but would be left alone for a while. After about 20 minutes I took out my chalk and wrote "I LOVE DOM" on the wet & snowy ground (it didn't make much of an impression), and was immediately approached by a Federal Police officer who told me I needed to stop. He showed me the new order, told me he wasn't going to arrest me, if I would just walk away.... I told him (and in all honestly, very regretfully and not looking forward to another trip to jail), that I could not walk away, and that I would keep writing with chalk if he left. He put me under arrest and brought me to his office where I was frisked and hand-cuffed (as I have been many times before). But this time was a little different, after some discussion on the phone with the US Attorney's office he wrote me a ticket for disobeying his order and released me (as long as I would leave the building). I accepted that (I felt like I had chickened out, but I just wasn't sure at that point). I thought I should take advantage of a few 'free' days to submit a motion to the Judge regarding all these 'stay-away' orders and also bring up the record of what had happened in the past (I can rationalize wimping out with the best of them!). I plan on going back again next Tuesday, Jan 29th, hopeful, as always, that I will have some other parents with me.... 3. Georgia State Senator Schaefer calls for CPS reform! ------------------------------------------------------ Submitted by: Mary Dixon and also by Paige Roberts http://georgiafamilyrights.tripod.com/ [ It was refreshing and encouraging to read a common sense and hard hitting article written by a Georgia State Senator. She gets it! ] > http://www.senatornancyschaefer.com/articles.php > You have to read this. Its excellent . > http://fightcps.com/pdf/TheCorruptBusinessOfChildProtectiveServices.pdf [ We should ALL be concerned with the abuse caused by "Child Protective Services" to both parents and children. Genuine 'reform' needs to also address and correct this great misuse of gov't power. ] 4. Congressional resolution for joint custody - it's a start. ------------------------------------------------------------ Forwarded by: "Deborah Fellows" Original from: David L. Levy, Esq. I hope everyone is following the flurry of petitions and movements. It is an election year and the only place we can make a difference.... Please sign and fax or mail or call... PLEASE POST AND FORWARD A joint custody resolution is now being considered by the U.S. Senate -- S. Con. Res. 59, introduced by Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-HI). It was introduced in the House last Fall -- H. Con. Res. 241, by Reps. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD) and Neil Abercrombie (D-HI). The resolutions express the sense of Congress that the states pass more joint custody laws. WE MUST NOW WORK TO GET THESE RESOLUTIONS PASSED. [ http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:hc241ih.txt.pdf ] You can view the Resolutions on the Library of Congress "Thomas" website. Please write to your House Member something like this in your own words: Dear Congressmember --- (for House member) Please co-sponsor H. Con. Res. 241, a resolution that asks the states to pass more joint custody laws. Children do better in school, experience less poverty and less involvement in crime and drugs, when they have two parents in their lives, even in divorce or never-married situations. Joint custody (shared parenting) for fit parents would help assure that more moms and dads, as well as grandparents, are more involved in children's lives. Please let me know if you can co-sponsor H. Con. Res. 241. Sign your name then Print your name, Address, phone number, email address. Tips: 1. Find out how to contact your Congressmembers at the Children's Rights Council's (CRC) website, http://www.CRCkids.org/. Under "Government," look up House and Senate. Phone, e-mail or fax to Congress (snail mail takes forever after 9/11). Fax is best, but not all Congressmembers list their fax numbers. 2. Obtain fax number by phoning your Congressmember at 202/225-3121 during normal business hours. Ask for the name of the staff member working for the Congressmember who would handle the joint custody resolution and write to his/her attention. FOLLOW UP EVERY 10 DAYS TO TWO WEEKS; ONE PHONE CALL, FAX OR E-MAIL WILL NOT DO IT. Always be polite; remember, you are asking your Congressmember to lay down the one thousand other things on his/her plate and to focus on the joint custody resolution. 3. Keep CRC informed of results, at info at crckids.org Note: These resolutions do not "require" the states to pass stronger joint custody laws; there are merely "requests." But requests in other areas over the years have produced positive results in the states. So please do not underestimate the power of a resolution. Joint custody is now a presumption or preference in 37 states and Washington, D.C. But it is applied unevenly in many of those states, let alone the 13 states that have no preference or presumption. Shared parenting has grown enormously over the past 20 years, but much more remains to be done. Thank you, on behalf of children and families everywhere. - David L. Levy, Esq. 5. Your FEEDBACK - a mixed bag. ------------------------------ The first part was about the ongoing effort to convince Sen. Clinton to meet with parents: http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton --- "David A. Bardes" > Don't listen to the critics - what you are doing is right and it > will work! Best of luck! --- Paige Roberts http://georgiafamilyrights.tripod.com/ > I am going to add this to our website. I would like to help John. --- roger baril > Once again John, I so greatly honor your determination to make it a > life work to effect reform for what i believe is the most important > social issue facing us in es. > And that is the loss of a parent and child rel;ationship that is > fundamental to family and health to our children. thank you for all > your efforts john. > sincerely, Roger Baril and on behalf of my daughter Lyla Hayley Baril > age 5 1/2 who has been unduly restricted from her relationship with > her father. --- Aldrich Donald > I appreciate what you have done. Standing alone, trying to move > fathers into action has been difficult . > I look at Thomas Paine and what he did with his publication "Common > Sense". One man who changed opinions of hundreds of thousands of > early Americans. I believe we are making headway. Keep leading the > charge. --- "Barry Worrall" > I know you're placing a lot of faith in Clinton. But have you read > her speech at the Women's Conference in Beijing 2005 ? No, I didn't see that one, but I know she wants to be President, she follows the polls, and she is a good politician. If our 'movement' can't convince someone like that on a Civil Rights issues, then we are just not there yet? More our problem than hers I think? --- Barry's followup reply > The point I'm making is that she is a feminist ideologist. That's > bad for us. > She probably won't see it as a civil rights issue, but us as a group > of men trying to take unfair advantage of women. Best of luck with > her. --- "Joseph. Bushey" > ...If you have a planned demonstration this summer, I hope to make > it to Syracuse. Although I`m not willing and or able (with Son`s > schedule and wife) to get locked up,but I am willing to be there. --- john smith > You mentioned in your article below you have not had fathers express > interest. I am not attracted by your egalitarian & feminist > approach, although you strive for some good things. Why? As a > husband and father I am not interested some shared parenting > arrangement. > I want a whole family and that comes only with Father custody and > the abolition of child support laws & the welfare state, eliminating > a woman's incentive to divorce. A man's earnings are HIS marital > capital as surely as the woman bringing herself and nothing more > needed is her contribution. Socialism is the enemy of the family. > Imagine if you see a attractive woman & could file an application > with the state to have her come to your bed regardless of her > marital status because you felt "deprived". Or if you could divorce > your wife and call her back to your bed even after she remarried? > Would this not destroy the Family as fast as socialism and child > support? This is exactly what we are doing to Fathers - we have > them contributing their sexual capital to ex-wives and women and > children apart from marriage. > Father ownership & custody - NOT equal parenting, NEVER. NO support > What do the Scriptures teach, Equal parenting or father ownership / > stewardship? ... do you have any moral justification for your approach to 'father' custody other than tradition? Slavery was common for thousands of years, having tyrants rule, one state religion, etc.... But what gives a Father any more right than a mother to be a parent to their child? Where does that come from? -- no follow up --- anon > Her mother does not want to handle things outside of court. My > husband has tried to before. She apparently likes having the > government in her backyard for some reason. This is all about money > to her. She can have the money. We just want M. to have the best > life has to offer, and we want her to be safe and to have a GREAT > education-which she is not getting now. > I do believe that EQUAL PARENTING is in the BEST INTEREST in MOST > cases. But I am not sure if it is in this one.... In some ways I agree with you, as a parent you should want to protect your child. But this goes beyond that, when we want the 'government' to help protect our child against the other parent. Not sure about 'unsafe'? Are you going to let the child spend any time with them at all, after all, a problem could happen at any time. Are you going to ask that they only have 'supervised' visits. That will allow government to provide 100% safety -- of course, not much of a life. It's funny how those things get connected? --- Richar Farr > John - why have you not gone door to door in your community telling > people in an abbreviated manner why you are doing what your are > doing? > we need to take our battle to the people in our communities - the > world wide web has it place but we have to fight this battle on the > ground door to door - taking it to the streets!!!!!!! > You would be surprised what help you could find. Isn't this a > little like suicide bombing? Why do we want to go to jail. > Still no talk of gathering a mass. No talk of contacting legislators > - mounting an ANTI-VOTE campaign against a D.A. or a county > commission - Call A senator today - Why are we not talking about > these things. > If these elected officials know there are enough of us - Damn it we > could start shaking things up - A letter does a lot - a fax does > alot - we need people to write template letters not continual > discussions on going to jail. Yikes!!! > We need people out of jail - contact and elected official and tell > them you want investigations of Local D.A.'s whatever - let them > know their jobs are in jeopardy. ORGANIZE VOTERS~~~~ I've seen some of your messages and all the stuff you talk about is fine. We need all those things, but how many great Civil Rights have been won by just community campaigns, or clever advertising alone? What makes a great Civil Right? What defines it? Just talking? http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil.htm -- when you have time go there and read some of the history/examples. Add one more: "Isn't this a little like suicide bombing? Why do we want to go to jail?" You don't see a difference between what I do and what is happening in Iraq? -- no reply to these questions... ####### following in response to the 'burning cars' for reform ####### advocated by Bruce Eden in out last list message: http://www.AKidsRight.org/archive/archive2008/0003.html --- "Theo Nieuwenhuizen" > let us burn cars, rob banks, become terrorist. > We want to improve the world, don't we? So we should start by being > like the rest ?? Being no better than those we wish to defeat? > Shame on you, shame on you. --- Teri Stoddard > Yes, we have debtors' prisons here in the great USofA. We know it, > the attorneys know it, the judges know it and the lawmakers know it. > My question is, what is the best way to expose this true injustice > without making all of you look like crazed maniacs? > I'm pretty sure setting cars on fire will just reinforce the > negative images the opposition has been promoting of you. > Unfortunately we have all the help we can use making you look bad. > Has anyone done what you're suggesting Bruce? If so, what came of > it? I worry you'd get the same result as those who took their cases > all the way to the supreme court, just to be rejected. Maybe it's > true that we need to win over the hearts of Americans first. > I think John has the right idea. He's making his point without > being aggressive or violent. He is truly an example of a loving > father, willing to risk it all for the right to parent his son. And > he did get media attention, including the internet, newspapers, > magazines, radio shows and TV news casts. > Bruce, you're right. John needs dozens of parents standing with him > in Syracuse. The question is...where are they? If you can get 200 > protesters at your rally, could you get 200 to show up in Syracuse? > With the election coming, Hillary might just be the best avenue to > pursue right now for more media coverage. > One issue I see slowing John's efforts is that supporters want to > show up in gender-specific shirts holding gender-specific signs. > One of the purest parts of John's efforts is that he fights for both > genders. I agree with him that we must support both genders equally > when it comes to parental rights. If we don't, we're hypocrites. > I think you all know that I'm a men's activist as much as I'm an > equal custody activist, and I truly understand the mountain you men > must climb to restore all of your rights. But when it comes to > parenting, you must be happy with equality, just equality. I'd like > to encourage all of you to support John in Syracuse the next time he > risks jail. --- Debra Root > It is a little difficult for me to read Bruce Eden's rant about John > Murtari, feminists, and other "demons". > I am a feminist (yes!) and a non-custodial mother who suffered an > appalling injustice in family court. Just like you men! But ain't I > a woman? > We need to support one another stop beating each other up! That is > counter-productive. > Like any other "movement" you will have differences of opinion and > finger-pointing at those who choose a less active role. > I admire John Murtari. There he is-way up in Syracuse-fighting a > virtual one-man,er,person fight. > And it is not that Bruce doesn't have a point. I understand his > frustration and anger and assertion that, in the past, blood had to > be shed to bring about change. > I don't have the answers and I do not have the tenacity and faith > that Mr. Murtari has. I wish I could support him more but I'll admit > it-I don't want to go to jail and end up job-less. I've worked very > hard to establish my career and a modicum of dignity and > self-reliance. There you have it-go ahead and beat ME up, not John > Murtari. -- John Murtari ____________________________________________________________________ Coordinator AKidsRight.Org jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents" Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211) http://www.AKidsRight.Org/ From jmurtari at AKidsRight.org Tue Jan 29 15:56:38 2008 From: jmurtari at AKidsRight.org (John Murtari) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:56:38 -0500 Subject: Third Murtari arrest for writing "I LOVE YOU" at Federal building Message-ID: <18335.37638.57320.124706@hammer.thebook.com> Good People & People of Faith, John Murtari returned to the Syracuse Federal Building with a petition containing pictures of parents and children unjustly separated. He was also carrying kid's chalk and planned to write "I LOVE YOU" to his son and "SEN CLINTON HELP US" on the ground outside the building. For the third time this January, he was arrested and taken into custody by building security. Earlier, John had sent a letter to the Federal Magistrate assigned to his case in an attempt to explain his (and our) actions and motivation: http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton/peebles3.pdf -- we hope you agree! We will release more details as they become available. Check the web site at http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton We encourage parents whose rights have been trampled by the system to consider participation in a planned National "I LOVE YOU" campaign, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton/national.htm Your FEEDBACK is welcome. TO HELP please contact Senator Clinton's Offices: ------------------------------------------------- Make a polite call to her Washington and especially her Syracuse Office (ask for/leave a message for Mr. Jay Biba). You can also fax a letter to both. Syracuse Local rep, Jay Biba tel: 315-448-0470, fax: 315-448-0476 Lona Valmoro (Senior Advisor), tel: 202-224-4451, fax: 202-228-0121 Your Phone Calls - Clinton Response ---------------------------------- It is beginning to make an impact. Some responses to what we have heard them say so far: 1) "We've had no request for a meeting" -- Repeated letters have been mailed, FAX'd, and FedEx'd to the Senator. Some have been delivered in person. We have had NO reply and NO return phone calls. http://www.AKidsRight.Org/actionc_syr http://www.AKidsRight.Org/newyork.htm 2) "The Senator doesn't come for personal meetings to Syracuse" - We are not looking for a one-to-one meeting. We'd like her to hear first hand from a small group of parents, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton/agenda.htm . She is often in the Central New York area to meet with other business/advocacy groups. 3) "This is not a Federal issue" -- This is about getting the Civil Rights of parents and children to be together, recognized & protected. It should not matter what State you live in. 4) "Priority, schedule conflicts" -- Is there anything more important and foundational to our Nation than the family? -- John Murtari ____________________________________________________________________ Coordinator AKidsRight.Org jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents" Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211) http://www.AKidsRight.Org/