From jmurtari at AKidsRight.org  Sat Jan 13 10:01:46 2007
From: jmurtari at AKidsRight.org (John Murtari)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:01:46 -0500
Subject: [AKidsRight.Org] CPS/ Boston Tea Party/ Wisconsin Doctor/ Spiderman
	& Your FEEDBACK
Message-ID: <17832.62554.911826.694322@hammer.thebook.com>

Good People & People of Faith,

1. Think CPS powers bad - this will make it worse in New York.
2. CPS out of control - Kentucky Inspector General.
3. Boston Tea Party - some videos and names.
4. Support Reform in Wisconsin - a Doctor's prescription for change.
5. A word from the real - SPIDERMAN (he has a British accent)!
6. Your FEEDBACK


> A form of tyranny is bound to exist where a single person rules over
> people ... Without any form of accountability, and with a view to
> his own advantage rather than that of his subjects, for no free man
> will voluntarily endure such a system. -- Aristotle

The theme of this message is Civil Rights and what methods do we use
to achieve them.  As a group we have a pretty clearly defined Goal and
Approach at http://www.AKidsRight.Org/approach.htm -- what's yours?

I met the leader of another group who had been through a brutal
divorce.  They now had only ONE of THREE sons who was willing to see
them for Christmas.  Here is their proposed program for reform:

     Force separating parents to go to a three person mediation panel
     consisting of: a trained mediator, a lawyer, and an accountant.
     There goal would be a solution which met the 'best interest of
     the Family', not just of the child.

     If mediation failed, it would then go to binding arbitration by
     one person who would also be trained to keep the 'best interest
     of the Family' at heart.

     If either parent was unhappy, they could then resort to the
     Appeal process.

What do you think?  This person thought it was a great
solution. Remove all the bias in the present system, change the focus
to the "family", and preserve family assets.

I thought it was no better than what we had now.  My basic question
was, "What gives these people the right to decide what is best for you
and your family?  Don't we have a basic right to be considered fit &
equal parents to our children?  Aren't you just replacing a Judge with
an 'arbiter' -- what will make them any less bias?  Without first
getting a criminal conviction by a jury of our peers -- why should any
family be subject to such government control?
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_rights_essay.htm

An intelligent parent, a leader, who had been tortured by the present
system, but focusing on a solution that would just replace one set of
arbitrary tyrants for another? Your thoughts?

Oh, and I didn't mention above if they were a father or a mother --
should that matter?



1.  Think CPS powers bad - this will make it worse!
---------------------------------------------------
Submitted by: "Greg Fischer" <perfect100 at hotmail.com>

[The bills referenced below may have been withdrawn since the link
no longer works -- but the goal should concern us all. Ed.]

A10412 and S6543 ... would have the effect to give police powers to
Child Protective Services (CPS).  Would drop "probable cause" and
other legal standards to nearly ZERO.

CPS has no real rules of evidence --- pure discretion.  Now the middle
class parents will be one social worker away from having their entire
house tossed!  (Even if they are away on vacation.)

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A10412

"Relates to individuals who refuse to participate in an investigation
being conducted by child protective services; grants a twenty-four
hour notice to the individual for the meeting or home visit; defines
"blatant refusal"; declares that such refusal shall indicate a need
for a more thorough investigation and shall be grounds for issuing an
immediate warrant to enter such individual`s home to investigate the
safety and well-being of the child or children; mandates that such
immediate warrant occur after one instance of blatant refusal."


2. CPS out of control - Kentucky Inspector General.
--------------------------------------------------
Submitted by: "Connecticut DCF Watch" <ct.dcf.watch at snet.net>

Inspector Delivers Scathing Child Services Report
http://www.wlky.com/news/10723437/detail.html

FRANKFORT, KY. -- The Office of Inspector General in the Kentucky
Cabinet for Health and Family Services issued a scathing report of a
year-long investigation of child protective services in central
Kentucky.

The 61-page report is a summary of the OIG investigation and lists
several conclusions.  Several instances of false documentation and
dishonesty by staff, including false signatures and omission or
supplementation of case records, have been reported to the Hardin
County, Ky., commonwealth's attorney.  The OIG found several cases of
unprofessional conduct by staff and supervisors.

According to the report, regional managers abused their power,
neglected to follow the chain of command and stripped supervisors of
their authority, including case review.  Some caseworkers exuded an
attitude of superiority with clients and held birth parents to higher,
often difficult-to-meet standards when determining whether to
recommend a child's parental rights be terminated, the report said.

CHFS Secretary Mark D. Birdwhistell said the report highlights several
areas his staff is already addressing.  "We have reviewed the OIG's
report and are prepared to act on it," he said. "I find it troubling,
but not entirely surprising. It clearly points to longstanding
problems with decentralized management that lacked appropriate checks
and balances to protect the integrity of the system."

However, the report does not substantiate allegations in the KYA
report that Lincoln Trail staff expedited foster children's
termination of parental rights to speed up certain adoptions....
(rest of article at link above).


3.  Boston Tea Party - some videos.
----------------------------------
Take the time to check out the videos on the following link.  The
production quality is excellent, especially the Boston Tea Party.  But
what about the content?  Is this the direction we should be heading to
get our Civil Right to be parents recognized?

How about:

    * Just look at the link below. All you mom's out there who have
    * been hurt by the system.  Do you 'like' a link to mensnewsdaily
    * or the actions of fathers4justice. To the men, if the link below
    * was to momsnewsdaily would you click and be ready to join
    * ladies4justice?

    * One of the videos is of a protester climbing the roof of a
    * Judge's home?  Is that how Civil Right's are won?  Should the
    * blacks fighting segregation in the South have climbed the roofs
    * also?  Point out how bad the white man was -- or do we change
    * deeply routed biases by changing hearts from within - by our
    * demonstrations of personal self sacrifice?
   
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2006/12/18/videos-fathers4justice-uk-and-us-demonstrations/


4. Support Reform in Wisconsin - a Doctor's prescription for change.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by a member: Dr. Malcolm Hatfield, MD  <hatfield at pol.net>
Read his story at: http://www.AKidsRight.Org/shame3.htm#hatfield

His letter to the editor published in the Racine Journal Times:

   "The recent article concerning cuts in federal incentives for child
   support enforcement gives the impression that this is a bad
   thing. I disagree and so do thousands of disenfranchised parents
   across Wisconsin. It is important to understand where the authority
   for the State to enforce child support comes from. It was intended
   to protect the State from the burden of supporting children whose
   parent(s) had willfully abandoned their children. The Social
   Security Act of 1935 was amended to include title IV-D.  This Act
   was intended to address the financial needs of these abandoned
   children.  Through what is known as 'legislative creep' this
   program has been expanded to include all children of divorce,
   whether the children are on welfare or not.  The State has
   unconstitutionally infringed on the natural guardianship right of
   parents in millions of cases.

   A solution to this problem is to presume that both fit parents are
   entitled to equal placement of their children. Millions of
   children, including my own daughter are growing up without the love
   and guidance of a parent who has been run off or jailed by this
   system. With equal placement both parents are responsible for their
   children's well being and both parents are able to render support on
   an equal basis. This would eliminate or severely reduce the need
   for State intervention and expenditures.

   Those State agencies whose budget depends on these federal
   incentives will never agree to this solution because it is not in
   their best interest to do so.  They would have to cut their bloated
   budgets and put bureaucrats out on the street where they belong."


5. A word from the real - SPIDERMAN (he has a British accent)!
-------------------------------------------------------------
David Chick <dave at leedsfc.fsnet.co.uk>, http://www.spidermandad.com/

[A real role model for many parents.  Not specially trained or gifted,
but willing to accept arrest not from a violent or insulting act
against others -- but a demonstration of courage, faith, and love.
What is stopping us? ]

The mayor of London compares him to Osama bin Laden. He's been dubbed
a "menace" holding a city for "ransom," as well as a lunatic and an
extremist.

What has a middle-aged window washer named David Chick done to arouse
such anger? He loves his little daughter, from whom he's been forcibly
separated, and he had the courage to do something about it.

     "[My daughter] is the most precious thing in my world. I was
     there for the scans when she was still in the womb.  I was there
     for her birth. I fed her, bathed her, got up in the night with
     her, cuddled her when she cried.
 
     "Now I'm just another statistic--another dad who has no part in
     his daughter's life. For me, it is a living bereavement."
 
Chick launched a world famous, traffic snarling, six day, one-man
protest atop a 150 foot high crane near the Tower Bridge in London in
November 2003. Dressed as Spiderman because he is his little
daughter's favorite comic book character, Chick had been to court 25
times and spent the equivalent of $30,000 in unsuccessful attempts to
get English courts to enforce his visitation rights.

Facing a prison sentence for his protest, Chick was acquitted by an
English jury, some of whom were reportedly moved to tears by his
testimony. In 2003, Chick came in second in the Evening Standard
London Personality of the Year contest and was the runner-up Political
Personality of the Year on a major English television station.

... read more at his web site, http://www.spidermanddad.com/


6. Your FEEDBACK 
----------------
In response to: http://www.AKidsRight.Org/support_jm.htm

--- dad4justice at yahoo.com.au

> You are an inspiration to me, as I have done hard jail time since my
> war started just before the Twin Towers went down. We will win in
> the end mate, and we will retain our dignity . Our kids love us to
> bits, and they are ALL going to be proud of us all one day .


--- amfortas at aapt.net.au

> Thanks Teri for the great exposure you have given John and his
> protest. He is a model of acting on conviction. He is a model to us
> all of peaceful non-cooperation.


--- "Walter Keller" <wkeller at nokomisinc.com>

> I just wanted to write to encourage your quest against an unjust
> system that simply hurts children. I want to encourage you to
> continue your non-violent and positive campaign. Your courage and
> leadership is much needed. There are a lot of people who have been
> hurt who do not know how to properly channel their energy and I am
> hopeful that your example will help put them onto the right track.
   
> It is unfortunate that reasonable people can not understand the harm
> that is thrust upon the children of the nation.


---  Bryan Ferguson <bferg2003 at yahoo.com>

> I was with you in spirit and appreciate what you are doing to help
> me get my parental rights.  My son is going to be 4 next month and
> has seen me once (on his 3rd birthday, after I did my best Jim
> Rockford imitation to find out where he was going to be, then had my
> mother with me when I visited him at his daycare, so she could
> intercede with my son's mother).  I have felt as thought I've been
> fighting for my rights on my own, but with your battle, though
> thousands of miles away, I don't feel so isolated.


--- terry.pitts at comcast.net

> Here in Georgia we have had some success in changing the state's
> child support laws. I was surprised to find myself standing on the
> capitol steps with a protest sign. I wouldn't have thought that as a
> middle aged white male republican professional that I'd be doing
> that. Of course, we go to great lengths to protect our children.

> I don't know that I would have had the strength to do what you
> did. You have brought a spotlight to the situation that a judge can
> set an irrational figure for child support and then jail someone who
> can't pay an economically unreasonable figure.

> Take care of yourself, your family, and keep up with the efforts. Do
> take time, though, to get your health back. It's much better for you
> to be a speaker than a martyr!


--- Bessie my14mema at yahoo.com

> Hi John, this is Bessie Hudgins from Three Sides to Every Story,
> Inc.  I would like to tell you that I kept you in my prayers while
> you was in jail.  I can not tell you how touched I was by what you
> did.  My son and I have been fighting a corrupt system for over 18
> years and still continue today.  We have not seen his children for
> over 6 years, but we keep fighting. I am glad you are out and
> getting back to your every day life.  Full steam ahead my friend,
> and if there is anything Ic an do for you through my website and
> org.  please do not hesitate to ask.


--- Bryant bcsvirtual.msg at juno.com

> I respect what you have done and are doing for our cause. It is VERY
> difficult to celebrate the holidaze without regular contact with
> "our" children. Most WOMEN are are beautiful both inside and out,
> but please remember there are also those she-devil's who are not;
> and who pump out illegitimate young victims and use them as
> "prostitutes" with the government acting like the "pimp"!

There are the occasional 'she-devils', but I also have to believe they
are balanced by an equal amount of 'he-devils'.  We are parents and
want our God given right to be EQUAL parents recognized.  I'm sure you
will agree, laying blame on one side or another isn't going to make
things better for us.  The bitterness only destroys us.


--- Cheryl.Taylor at kellogg.com

> Did you ever get to meet Hilary Clinton?  I lost custody of my 10
> year old son.  My heart is broken every day.  His father uses him as
> a pawn to hurt me.  Even though his father has full custody, he
> still fights with me over 20 minutes!
  
> ... I miss my baby so much!  He cries for me.  I still can't believe
> that I never hurt my child, don't use drugs, have a great home for
> him with 2 siblings that live with us and the courts took him away
> from me.  The main reason his father won custody is because he
> planned it for a year and managed to manipulate situations to his
> advantage.  We just didn't get along with each other.

We are still working on Sen. Clinton and are making plans for a rally
outside here offices for this Spring.  I'm so sorry to hear about your
situation and the attempts made to completely cut you out of your
child's life.  It is easy to 'game' the system -- we should just be
equal parents.


--- George Kenner <fourtecman at yahoo.com>

> I could not be happier that your home and are soon to see your son.
> Your actions inspire me and I am currently in discussion with the
> Ca. Chapter President of Fathers for Justice.

>   I am not the type of person to get dressed up or even risk arrest
>   but we are developing a way to respond to a rumor that is running
>   around in San Diego.

>   I have found a web site that posts courthouse rumors and
>   statements of people that have been abused by the courts.  In fact
>   I did not find it, I was sent a link to the site by Teri Stoddard.

>   Sometime after Christmas this plan could go into effect.  It is of
>   course nonviolent and in fact could inspire attention to the
>   cause.  I may in fact ask that you endorse part of the action.

>   I will be watching what you do relative to a meeting request with
>   Hillary Clinton.  I will join any letter writing request that you
>   make.


--- Robert Stevens Unclefixer at hotmail.com

> Kept fighting John, the only way to beat these kidnapping and
> stealing bastards is to stand up to them.  Any way we can!  The God
> awful abuse John Murtari has suffered at the hands of an abusive
> system is testament to the love fathers actually have for their
> children.  Going so far as to go on a hunger strike.  I Just hope
> the "Terrorist" who run the family court system are paying
> attention.  Because anytime someone is dedicated enough to suffer
> personally to advance their cause, then watch out.  If the
> "Terrorist" ignore this message, then the next people to suffer may
> be them!  Because if peaceful methods fail, then force will then,
> regrettably, be necessary.  And the "terrorist" will lose, they are
> out numbered, out gunned and out financed. They are going to lose!
> It would be better if they simply conceded to the demands we are
> making ro reform.  But I fear that they are too stupid, too arrogant
> and too selfish to get it.  I fear, force will be necessary.

... Hopefully, our willingness to sacrifice for what we believe in
will bring reform.


--- Mike Little <mnlittle at prodigy.net>

> Good to hear from you John!  I'm glad you didn't cave in and even
> happier that you survived!  As a fellow former political prisoner of
> the United States of American, even though it was our respective
> states who wrongfully imprisoned us the federal government should
> have interceded to protect our constitutional rights, I do
> understand your feelings about having this done to you.  It's wrong
> and the people doing it know it.  As you know, they do it for the
> money.  I'm very proud of you for finding a way to stand up to them.
> I only wish that I was closer so that I could have help you through
> the experience. Mike Little Fort Worth, Texas


--- dday226 at msn.com      "Reform for Who?"

> Are we really getting closer to reform? I had a hearing in front of
> John Allen again (hearings total 16 years now) and was told that my
> daughter's father could NOT pay the required amount of 100.00 per
> month because he was self-employed.&nbsp; Please note that although
> we do live in another state MY daughter has spent the last 10
> Christmas vacations and summer vacations in NY with her father's
> relatives.... Reform for whom?....certainly not the parents who work
> to support their children and must spend month after month, year
> after year trying to get a little more than 100.00 a month only to
> be told NO by a bias hearing examiner... I ask you again...reform
> for whom?
 
You ask a good question.  The support system is a mess and before it
can be 'fixed' we first need to reform how we think of the rights of
parents to be with their children.  Once we have real equality between
parents (and I'd welcome your thoughts on a draft Family Rights Act we
have, http://www.AKidsRIght.Org/act.htm) -- I think we can do a better
job with support.


--- Deborah Planet <dlp4010 at aol.com>

> Prayers are with you from Marin County, Ca. I was now ordered after
> 12 1/2 years in court to once a year a 6 hour visit in Hawaii. No
> visit for 1 1/2 years at all because of trial which was only a
> motion.


--- ronaldneil at sbcglobal.net

> If you see the issue as political, I am sorry. We must focus outside
> the partisan box.

> When a President violates his oath of office it should be viewed as
> a crime and not overlooked by those who voted for him or, because he
> is a "Christian" or, because he has the support of a particular
> party or, because he supports certain issues that seem important at
> the time.

> Impeachment should be pursued because we must honor those who fought
> and died to maintain the rule of law in our Constitutional Republic.

> Also, Congress seems to care little about this issue. That is no
> reason for us to ignore a corrupt official who has violated his oath
> of office. Besides, Congress should follow our lead and not the
> other way around.

> So, please, support impeachment and send a message to our elected
> "leaders" that we are watching and we do not like what we see.

I quite agree that when an official does something wrong they should
be prosecuted/impeached as conditions permit.  I do not agree that
should be the primary focus of our efforts on a Civil Rights issue
such as the ability to be recognized as fit & equal parents to our
children, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/approach.htm

We need to get that 'right' recognized and protected through
legislative changes as has been done in the past.


--- "Bill Ross" <billross-usa at cox.net>

> have never written to you in the past.  I am a non-custodial parent
> who spent close to $200K in court trying to protect my rights, and
> the rights of my children to have their father participate in
> raising them (now grown- 19 and 20 years old).
 
It is amazing how much money you have to pay just to be a parent to
your kids!  I'm glad to hear of your success.  I know many people who
spend the money and still end up with almost no visits.


> My ex-wife was very litigious and took me to court 6 or 7 times
> trying to take time with the kids away since we divorced in 1990.
> This was entirely about her getting more child support instead of
> what was best for the children.  Less time with dad equaled more
> money for her.  Considering she made over $100K per year, this is
> quite appalling.

> Throughout the 90's, each time I went to court, I was granted more
> custody of the children (up to the judge recommending 50/50 custody
> in 1997), but the court system in California does not favor joint
> custody when the parents, "do not get along".  In other words, all
> the custodial parent has to do is put up a stink and say they do not
> get a long with the other parent and custody is knocked down to
> 60/40.
  
Yes, it is the same here in NY.  All it takes is ONE person to cause a
communication failure.  I certainly feel that should NOT matter.  You
have two fit parents and they can share joint legal custody.  That way
both parents stay informed about what is going on with their children
and you alternate 'tie' breaker authority, perhaps on an annual basis.
You both have equal time, neither parent can change that over the
objection of the other.


> My current wife and I (I remarried in 96') are very strong
> Christians and are fortunate enough to have a child in our current
> marriage.  Cari is currently 7 and is turning out to be wonderful.
> Her older brother and sister (Nicole and Daniel), on the other hand,
> are not as lucky.  They are a mess from all the time, money and
> energy that was expending fighting over them in court.  I debate in
> my own mind whether I did the right thing fighting for their rights
> and mine to be involved in their life.  It's not that it wasn't
> right for them to have both parents equally involved.  It's that the
> system did not support my efforts and made a total mess of my family
> through the process I had to go through to continue to be involved
> with them.  Therefore, it probably wasn't worth all that we loss
> trying to make this happen.

Sorry to hear about what is going on with your older kids.  I don't
have a doubt you did the right thing and I know some good families
that never went through a divorce, but are still having problems with
their kids as they became young adults and got involved with drugs and
alcohol.  Sometimes it just happens no matter what you do.  Hopefully
with you as a steady presence and example, they should 'settle down'
with time!


> John, hopefully you can see that I am a man with much experience
> with the issue of non-custodial parenting issues.  I have been
> dealing with this since 1990. There is something I feel that is a
> very important way for you to gain support from politicians and
> communities for the campaign of rights for non-custodial parents.
> Please consider this...

> I recently worked for LA County and found a lot of interest from the
> LA Board of Supervisors in a particular topic.  If I had taken time
> to pursue it, the initial feedback I received was that I would have
> gathered a very interested following from them. Here's what I
> presented...

> With 50% or more of marriages ending in divorce and 40% of kids
> being born today out of wedlock, there are a lot of kids being born
> into single parent homes.  The statistics bare this out with very
> high incidents for teen pregnancy, teenage drug use, suicides,
> drop-outs, gang activity and other societal problems.  Our
> communities spend millions of dollars for programs and law
> enforcement to curb the problems that are created by children being
> raised by single parents.  There is a much simpler solution that is
> inexpensive and can have a much more effective at curbing these
> problems...

> Support good non-custodial parents who want to be involved with
> their children!  Change the court system to provide proper civil
> rights and support non-custodial parents who want and need to be
> involved in their children's lives.  The money that's spent on
> lawyers and inflated child support is better spent on providing
> non-custodial parents a better opportunity and more time to be
> involved with their children.  Children who have both parents
> involved grow up to be better adults and don't contribute to adverse
> statistics.  Court systems that decide to put energy into finding
> ways to encourage the involvement of non-custodial parents in
> children's lives will find a huge pay-off in all of our futures.  I
> am sure you agree with this.  I believe this is the way to get
> politicians and key people involved in our cause.

-- 
                                       John Murtari
____________________________________________________________________
Coordinator                            AKidsRight.Org
jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org                "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)        http://www.AKidsRight.Org/

From jmurtari at akidsright.org  Mon Jan 15 14:03:58 2007
From: jmurtari at akidsright.org (John Murtari)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:03:58 -0500
Subject: [AKidsRight.Org] Support System Down (the movie)/ Martin Luther
	King's actions
Message-ID: <17835.53278.27433.358472@hammer.thebook.com>

Good People & People of Faith,

     Before speaking about Martin Luther King, I do want to take a
moment and encourage you to visit the web site for a new documentary,
"Support? System Down", http://www.supportthemovie.com/ It is a
polished work, and while focusing on Support, it will certainly help
further our cause for Family rights. I also encourage you to give the
producers any financial support you can.  They are working to promote
the film at some major film festivals and they can use our help --
money is tight.

     Like many of you I'm skeptical about giving folks from
"Hollywood" money.  I met the Producer, Mr. Angelo Lobo, when his crew
filmed me during my recent jail time.  I also had the chance to see
him again in a return visit he made to New York.  They are working
very, very hard on this and I certainly felt his heartfelt commitment
to our cause.

     It is easy & secure to contribute by PayPal, just follow the
"Contribute Here" link on the page,
http://www.supportthemovie.com/sponsors -- ANY individual can make a
donation.  I've chipped in a few dollars via PayPal myself, and even
though I will get no financial return, I hope they and their other
investors make millions on the film -- for it will mean we have gotten
our message across to a LOT of people.

---  New BLOG for your comments.

We are working on making it easier for folks in the group to share
ideas and get their thoughts posted.  Please check out the new BLOG at
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/wordpress 

If response is good we will use this to post portions of list
messages. We are inaugurating the BLOG by using this message on Martin
Luther King Day. Your comments at the BLOG will be welcome!


---  Martin Luther King's Actions

If you are serious about social reform, take the time to read an
outstanding Biography on King, "Let the Trumpet Sound" by Steven
Oates.  King is neither a Saint or a Devil, but someone struggling for
reform, with successes and failures.  We can all learn from his
efforts and his attitude.

When we spend our time in anger, or as a victim, or criticizing the
'other' side (moms or dads) -- reform doesn't come any closer.  When
we are inspired by the ideal that we have a basic Civil Right to be
"Fit & Equal" parents in the life of the children we love -- we move
forward.  http://www.AKidsRIght.Org/approach.htm


Martin Luther King Day - what he really proved?
-----------------------------------------------
Most of us have heard sound bites about how he should inspire us to
work for peace and justice.  Did we miss the point of what was so
unique in what he did?  For many of us "working for peace and justice"
consists of talking and writing about it?

If King demonstrated anything, it was that the combination of Faith,
Love, and Personal Sacrifice (NonViolent Action) can make significant
social reform happen.  I didn't hear a lot about that?

Sometimes people think "Sacrifice" is the anguish they went through
when a Court separated them from their children, maybe the pain they
felt the first evening they spent in a home away from their kids?
Some of us think of "Love" and think of the love we have for our kids
-- but PLEASE, don't ask me to love my former spouse or the Judge,
lawyer, or social worker!  And "Faith" ... what do you think it means
now?

Please, if you have never done so, read some of the excerpts from the
lives of King and Gandhi we have at the site,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_back.htm

Sacrifice, Faith & Love
-----------------------
Perhaps some of us think 'this is America' -- when your rights are
violated you sue someone in Court, get a 'book deal', go on 'Good
Morning America', and make a million bucks!  Tell that to the many poor
blacks who followed King and sought equality, or the Indians who
followed Gandhi in a struggle for independence.  Many were killed and we
don't even know their names!  

Sacrifice is what we voluntarily surrender -- with no sure hope of
achieving a goal. Hopefully, many of us know that King carried the
title "Doctor", not because he was a physician, but a Baptist Minister
-- who tried to have Faith in a Loving and Personal God, not a
philosophical construct.  You had to have Faith to make that type of
Sacrifice. He could separate the disapproval he felt for the actions
of the "whites", while still acknowledging they were his brothers and
sisters and worthy of not only God's love, but his love.

A Real Inspiration
------------------
Probably the biggest comfort we should draw from the lesson of
segregation is that serious and fundamental change is possible.  Many
of us can't even imagine forcing a black to sit in the back of the
bus, or drink from a different water fountain, or use a different
bathroom.  But back in 1950 -- that was how it was and a lot of
people, including many educated blacks and whites, thought it would
never change!

Unfortunately, many of us as parents get excited about reform, but
after a few years we become 'more practical' -- it often happens that
leadership gives up on the "big goal" as just not possible.  We no
longer believe.  Sorry, but when we hear people set their goals on a
"rebuttable presumption of joint custody" or "more oversight and
training for Child Protective services staff" -- have we surrendered?
When we actually begin to think that the State of Alabama has the
power to license our children to us?  Or that we need to "ask" a Judge
to restore to us our most basic human right?

What did King demonstrate?  That with real Faith, real Love, and real
Sacrifice, real miracles can happen.  But you have to "believe", you
have to "act," and then noble dreams take on flesh and become reality.

-- 
                                       John Murtari
____________________________________________________________________
Coordinator                            AKidsRight.Org
jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org                "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)        http://www.AKidsRight.Org/

From jmurtari at AKidsRight.org  Sun Jan 21 20:30:30 2007
From: jmurtari at AKidsRight.org (John Murtari)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:30:30 -0500
Subject: [AKidsRight.Org] What's our name, our goal - Just your FEEDBACK
Message-ID: <17844.5046.650571.681338@hammer.thebook.com>

Good People & People of Faith,

1. Your FEEDBACK - What's in a name?
2. Your FEEDBACK - Goal for reform?

There was a lot of excellent FEEDBACK to a brief message that is
repeated below:

  Just look at the link below. All you mom's out there who have been
  hurt by the system.  Do you 'like' a link to mensnewsdaily or the
  actions of fathers4justice. To the men, if the link below was to
  momsnewsdaily would you click and be ready to join ladies4justice?

  One of the videos is of a protester climbing the roof of a Judge's
  home?  Is that how Civil Right's are won?  Should the blacks
  fighting segregation in the South have climbed the roofs also?
  Point out how bad the white man was -- or do we change deeply routed
  biases by changing hearts from within - by our demonstrations of
  personal self sacrifice?
   
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2006/12/18/videos-fathers4justice-uk-and-us-demonstrations/

After you check the FEEDBACK below, you are welcome to add additional
comments at our BLOG, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/wordpress/

Some good dialogs below, and we try to give you the last word.


1. Your FEEDBACK - What's in a name?
------------------------------------

--- George Mason  <george.mason at ma.f4j.us>

> Saw your commentary wrt F4J actions.  Seen "Iron Jawed Angels"?
> Certainly they had the peaceful resistance down to a "T" and part of
> it was "Parades" and "anger" 
> http://www.f4j.com/index.php?id=ma&type=1

Thanks for the message.  I'm not familiar with Iron Jawed Angels, but
with Google I found it, about women's rights.  Actually I read a few
texts on WOmen's rights history and we have some detail at the site,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_back.htm -- not sure if they present
the best example of success?  It took a long time to achieve what
maybe should have been a slam-dunk.

Hopefully the actions of King and the blacks that followed the
approach of NonViolent Action (also at the link above) will provide a
better example for us?

Intelligent people can disagree about methods, we are all trying and I
think folks will be attracted to what 'works'.  So far, nothing has
really happened -- we'll see.


--- Robin <robin at parental-alienation-awareness.com>

> I have read John Murtari's post, and feel that the nomenclature of
> some of these groups can be a "turn off". From my work with several
> men's groups here in South Florida, sadly, the statistics point to
> the fact that the greater percentage of NCP are men, with all of the
> ramifications that NCP brings with it.

> But I agree with you, Bob, 100%, that the focus should not be on
> gender, but, rather, what is in the best interest of the
> child. There can be no best interest to the child when either loving
> parent, along with extended family, is removed from a child's life.

> We must be united in our cause, we must be neutral in gender, and we
> must be focused on the child. In that way, I hope there will be more
> involvement and support.

> Today, the day we give tribute to Dr. Martin Luther King, I want to
> thank you for reminding us of the meaning of and support for, faith,
> love, and sacrifice. May Dr. King's memory and example of
> perseverance toward a goal remind us that the road is long, the work
> is hard, the outcome is uncertain, but with faith, love, and
> sacrifice we must believe that miracles can happen


--- Louise <HaveUmistakenMe at aol.com>

> John, I am one of those moms who has been destroyed by the system, I
> am also one of the moms in the Boston Tea Party video. I agree, in
> order to have "change" we NCP need to approach things
> differently. The "fathers rights groups" have been stereotyped for
> so many years that sadly the public "thinks" they are a group of
> disgruntled men, when in fact I am very grateful that they are
> not. I am grateful they accepted me into their world and have tried
> to help my family.

> I feel a little uncomfortable standing with these men shouting
> "fathers rights" while it is obvious I am a "mother" and what is
> needed is PARENTS RIGHTS. <FAMILY RIGHTS> ( I added this Family
> rights since yesterdays reply as I thought about it and "parents
> rights still leaves out extended family"

> However, I strongly feel "fathers" NEED RIGHTS. They have been *&^%
> ed by the system for way to many years. But my theory is lets change
> what the public sees. "Parents rights" will force the public to see
> "women's rights groups" are a front, for ANGRY WENCHES. Not safety
> zones for "abused women" which I am with proof yet "NOW" refused to
> help me, because my children had already been turned against me when
> I contacted "NOW."

> I have also found many other "women" from abusive marriages that
> "lost" their children to the true abuser. If enough of us got
> together and "PROVED to the public that "NOW" simply wants
> "control/abuse these innocent men" and couldn't care less about
> saving the "abused women" "Fathers rights groups" aka (Parents
> rights groups) would finally get the recognition they deserve.

> ... The women's groups "NOW" had refused to help me, even though I
> have a permanent Order of Protection, obtained in another state
> (given to me after I proved to the court my ex pushed me backwards
> thru a glass table leaving a scar on my back, while my ex attempted
> to tell the judge "I fell" while he was advancing on me).

> In closing I agree, PARENTS RIGHTS need to be the focus. That idea
> brings me to this question.. What is the definition of insanity?


--- John Fowler <DFowler885 at aol.com>

> So I am confused. Are you supportive of F4J tactic or not? I get
> very mixed signals from you. Remember that some of our people
> supported you and your tactic. We need Unity.

I like the superhero stuff and climbing things for the love of your
kids. A hero willing to sacrifice for the love of their child -- it is
classic and powerful!

More recently I was not as excited about climbin a Judge's house or
venting anger in a 'hero' uniform.  I was a former AF pilot: Judges,
lawyers, and social workers are NOT the enemy.  Bias and a system
which gives a single person too much power is.

Loving self-sacrifice is our most powerful approach.  I can disagree
with you about the 'wrong' a judge, lawyer, or social worker did.  It
is VERY HARD for me to disagree with you when you tell me (and show
me) how you love your child.

- John replies:

> Thanks and I respect you viewpoints but also please keep in mind
> that F4J UK is NOT affiliated with F4J US. We are totally separate
> organizations.  THanks

> One other thought. We are not against every judge. There are good
> judges and bad judges just like in every profession. We feel
> strongly that bad judges need to be held accountable for bad
> decisions. Since they have almost total discretion THEY are
> responsible under current law in most states. We hope laws will
> change but unfortunately as you know that may take a while. We are
> not willing to wait.!


--- Joanna <hope4kidz at houston.rr.com>     http://www.hope4kidz.org/

> Your tireless effort to put a stop to the he-she b.s. is encouraging.

> I know I am blessed and although it has not always been easy, my ex,
> my husband of 17 years, and I have managed to put our kids first and
> put our own petty feelings aside, so that our children would not be
> forced to choose.

> I cannot count how many times my adult children have thanked me for
> having their father and grandfather over for Christmas,
> Thanksgiving, and their birthday parties.  No child should have to
> choose between their parents.

> I do not know how we will undo what has been going on in the she-he
> fights for so many years but you are making great strides in doing
> just that.

> Our children are only loaned to us for a short period of time and we
> must learn to act like adults so that our children can be children.
> As Mahatma Gandhi said so well, "You must be the change you wish to
> see in the world."


--- Bob Barker <rjbark2002 at yahoo.com>

> Bob Barker from MA. here. First of all I think the video and media
> coverage helps to open up the eyes of people that are not aware of
> the problems in family court. Mostly because they have not
> experienced it. After all most of us if not all though the family
> court would be just and fair, did we not. That is how many people
> think and we need to educate them tat it is not.

> The question is would the woman got to the mensnewsdaily or if a man
> would they go to momsnewsdaily and join.

>  First of all thank you John for your efforts and sacrifices you
>  have made for this cause.

> Yes I would as long as the group recognize that it happens to both
> genders and acknowledges this in what they do. They support each
> other no matter what their gender is. After all this effects
> Grandparents Aunts and Uncles... Plus our children are also both
> genders and this affects them as well when parents are not allowed
> time and involvement in their lives.

> For this movement what ever you want to call it Fathers, mothers ,
> noncustodial parents.. right It is really about family rights and
> all of our civil rights and the way the courts do not respect or
> gives us our civil rights.

>  This one of the biggest issue for our movement, is there are so
>  many groups and working and speaking to one gender or the other. In
>  doing this they alienates others from supporting their perceived
>  cause.

>  When it is a cause we all need to speak out against to save our
>  families , our civil rights problems in family court..... . Which
>  is what we all are trying to do to make the future better for our
>  children.


> We need to join together as PEOPlE and demand change because this is
> wrong, Not for gender but for families and children and their
> future,.As well as protecting and demanding our civil rights.


--- Mark Young <markyoung12 at yahoo.com>  http://www.exiledfathers.org

> I do appreciate your Christian non-violent approach. However, I
> disagree with your request for gender neutrality on signs, etc.  I
> joined F4J and call my website exiledfathers.org because they are
> accurate representations of the times.

> You and the vast majority of NC parents are exiled fathers seeking
> justice.  We are all always inclusive of all exiled parents in our
> demands for justice with chants like "two parents are better than
> one" or "kids need both parents".

> Of course 100 years ago women were treated as property and denied
> parental rights but now the opposite is reality.  Men are currently
> the slaves upon which an industry is based just as African Americans
> once were.

I think this is where the error is.  Men are not 'slaves' in our
system.  There is no law that explicitly targets men as 'men', unlike
the laws regarding segregation and women which explicitly said 'women'
and 'blacks 'in their wording.

Yes, I agree men are the ones usually effected, but it can (and does)
effect mothers also -- the problem is giving a single person complete
control over your family life, making you subject to whatever petty
biases that person has, whatever that person think 'normal' family is
-- which depends a whole lot on how they were brought up in their
family.  The problem is recognizing the 'civil rights' of parents, not
just of men.

   
> The first sentence on my website gives a definition for exiled
> parents in recognition that some women are also NC parents,
> including my stepdaughter.  But it would not make sense in these
> days to call my website exiled parents or the call to call f4j
> parents 4 justice.

I saw the site and the first sentence.  It would make a lot of sense
to change the name to agree with your own definition.  I see no
betrayal or inconsistency in an F4J group that wants that to stand for
Families for Justice?

I do like what you say about requiring a criminal conviction before
any parent is labeled unfit or less than EQUAL -- that is the
solution.

> Judy Smith-Phelps of F4J gets it and her presence among fathers
> hugely amplifies the truth that fathers are, at this time, the great
> majority of victims.

> It saddens me that you would put a damper on free speech - true
> speech.  I pray you reconsider and withdraw that request.

I fully support free speech and I think the F4J folks have done
amazing things.  My 'free speech' is that I don't think labeling our
groups as 'men/fathers or mom/mothers' will make us politically
powerful in bring the change we seek.  The favorite 'out' of any
politician on this issue is to avoid a gender was, no one wants to get
involved in a mom v. dad thing -- we are the most powerful when we are
men and women together, in name as well as fact.


- Wes replies

> It doesn't really matter that the word "man" or "father" isn't used
> in the text of the laws here in VA, in practice the law results in
> 96% of fathers losing and mothers winning. Just as it would have
> made no difference if the old segregation laws used the word
> "african american" or "less desirable" or "not like us" the results
> would have been the same.

> I've been thru the gender neutral discussion many many times before
> and its a waste to time to debate it for long. Here is the insight
> I've gained.

> 1. You MUST have a group that indicates it is for fathers. Fathers
> are the overwhelming majority of people that both need help, want
> help and will be activist. A gender neutral group name won't attract
> nearly as many people, especially since feminists have been using
> gender neutral group names for anti-father groups. The feminists
> have been so successful I don't even waste time on looking into
> gender neutral groups, as gender neutral in practice implies woman
> only.

> 2. Its not a single gender issue for the 4% of mothers that lose and
> of those I've seen they are MUCH more likely to be politically
> active than the men who lose. You definitely want to attract and
> involve them. They don't seem put off by male only group names.

> I think the real solution is to accept if you really want to
> organize successfully you will have to have group names. Gender
> neutral is right but it will lose you most of the people you want to
> attract no matter how much you try to paint it otherwise. So make
> two groups, a male only name to bring in the fathers and then you
> can always attract the mothers and lobby with the gender neutral
> group name.

> For example nothing wrong with saying Fathers 4 Justice and Families
> 4 Justice will hold a joint protest....


- Mark replies:

> Thanks for responding.  I believe we are involved in a numbers game
> to achieve a critical mass of fellow victims joining the "army" to
> defeat the divorce industry.  I care more about reaching fellow
> victims than pleasing legislators.  Legislators will not do anything
> until they fear the PEOPLE.  Right now the people fear the
> GOVERNMENT.  That's the heart of the problem.

> If I put "exiled parents" or "familes for justice" on a sign, my
> van, or the internet, that is not going to get the attention as many
> of the class which in this particular point in history is most
> victimized: men, the de facto, if not de jure, slaves of the times
> we live in.

> I think Wes is right: inclusion of both angles at any particular
> event.  But if John is restricting his rallys or whatever to gender
> neutral language or speech, I'm sorry to say I likely would not
> attend.  I trust the wisdom of those willing to demonstrate as to
> how they express what's in their hearts.


2. Your FEEDBACK - Goal for reform?
-----------------------------------

--- Tammy Bowman <tamdpm at yahoo.com>  'That's the parent the child has'

> Divorce and custody are worlds apart from Ohio to New York.  OH at
> least tries to help the couple move to a better place of agreements,
> a healthier place for the children.... I think that ultimately,
> mediation will be the best way to go if it is at all possible.

> I've thought a great deal about our conversation, and you are right,
> the best interests of the child remain with the parents, Equally.
> Courts really have no place in this arena.  If a child has a
> particular talent, or disability, it's up to the school's teacher
> who notices this to convince BOTH parents that it's in the child's
> best interest to have time in either of those areas.  If a parent
> still doesn't "buy it" it's too bad, that's the parent that child
> has.


--- Carl Street <cjstreet at comcast.net>   http://cjstreet.com 

> Just a quick thought -- I do NOT agree with the current CPS
> interventions; however, I think their tactics can be exposed for
> what they are IF only a single item is introduced into the
> equation....

> Legally require BLIND justice in all child custody cases by
> REQUIRING that all documents, evidence, etc. be presented WITHOUT
> DISCLOSURE as to WHICH litigating parent is responsible for what.
> This would IMMEDIATELY remove the bias claims by either side and
> force the authorities to do what they purport to do -- make
> decisions in the best interests of the children.

Thanks for the message and idea.  But why give an 'authority' that
kind of power.  Right now CPS can separate parents/kids for a 'long'
time even if they don't win a criminal conviction.  How about
requiring that, and how about saying if they want an 'emergency'
separation between parents/child, that would trigger a 30 day speedy
trial for the parents if they desire.  It would just be using the
existing guidelines in our Criminal system and 12 people have to find
you guilty?  That is what we have in a draft Family Rights act,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/act.htm -- I welcome your thoughts.


- Carl replies:

> At the risk of appearing pedantic let me say I was NOT advocating
> this in terms of criminal convictions; rather; in terms of civil
> litigation between alienated marriage partners.  I just wanted to
> make sure my idea was not misunderstood.

> Regarding the criminal side of things, the government pretty much
> does what it damn well pleases; constitutions, bills of rights;
> ethics, logic, and laws be damned -- ask any American Indian,
> Japanese concentration camp survivor, Muslim traveler; and/or any
> other group the authorities decide to target.  The answers to THAT
> problem do not lie within the court system and never will.

--- "JIMMY" <justicemaker2 at eircom.net>

> Please go to http://cps-victims.wetpaint.com & look under Navigation
> for your Page.  Petition: http://cps-victims.memory-of.com

Got both your message, very interesting web sites.  Thanks for the
mention.  I should be able to mention the petition in an upcoming
message.

Best regards to you in Ireland!  I did see the CPS site you had there
and the goals seemed weak?  The government should only remove children
when it is serious/has to?  I guess the problem always is who decides
that?

I think the only serious protection is requiring a parent be convicted
by a unanimous verdict from a jury of their peers.  Has that been
considered?  I'm not sure if criminal juries are used in Ireland?


--- William L Spence <wls at redshift.com>

> I would enact a legal presumption that courts order the
> parent-submitted parenting plan that provides for the closer to
> 50-50 timeshare, to be rebutted only on a showing to a high standard
> of proof that the plan is infeasible, i.e., that the parent or
> parents cannot actually carry out the duties the plan assigns.

> Although they could consult and take advice from therapists, parents
> and their legal counsel---not mental health practitioners---would be
> responsible for introducing and defending parenting plans, which
> would constitute essentially the entirety of custody orders.  Only
> if specific need were shown would therapists ever appear (in person
> or through a written report) as expert or factual witnesses.

> BTW, the Wisconsin doctor has the right idea, but unfortunately
> conflates several distinct aspects of child support, and child
> custody, law.  It should be emphasized that it always takes action
> on the part of the obligee to bring the agency into a non-welfare
> child support case, although federal policy---especially through
> things like disallowing wage assignments written to the
> recipient---is making it increasingly difficult for parents to
> remain independent.

Thanks for the messages -- but I keep going back to what gives all
these people the right to interfere or dictate based on any standard
of proof?  Both parents are considered Fit & Equal, by default
alternating weeks (but they can agree between themselves or with the
help of mediation to any arrangement they like).  No court has the
authority to intervene unless a criminal conviction has been won
against one of the parents for being a demonstrated serious threat
(with malintent), to the safety of their kids.  Your thoughts?


--- "RJ Mills" <rjmills at tmlp.com>

> Let me also mention that the Public is becoming aware, and people
> are seeing these signs. Membership has increased and the mention of
> shared parenting is being discussed openly now. I have just one hour
> ago, gotten a call from my Representative regarding a Bill we have
> in the House for shared parenting. He had said he will Support and
> Push for this bill. Our monthly meetings are growing and we have
> plans for Activities of making the public made known by doing Fund
> raisers, Golf tournaments and More. I have not seen activates in
> this so upbeat than what we have done now to make the Public
> aware. They have no Clue this is happening. WE MUST BRING IT TO
> THEM, The Media will than becoming to Us. Instead of us going to
> them. Our Children are being hurt, and we must let everybody know!! 
> We have a four stage process on signage over the Highways. The
> messages will becoming more direct to those in Opposition to us. We
> need to shame those whom are Hurting our Children and we intent to
> do this.

-- 
                                       John Murtari
____________________________________________________________________
Coordinator                            AKidsRight.Org
jmurtari at AKidsRight.Org                "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)        http://www.AKidsRight.Org/